Innocent Until Proven Guilty: My Take On L’affaire Busquets (Updated)

Okay, we’ve heard from one side of the debate — about if Busi’s guilty and/or the club’s responsibility — but it’s time for another side.

Innocent until proven guilty.

Can anyone here tell me what that means? No, really. What does it mean? I’m not sure people know anymore.

The notion comes from the Latin legal principle that ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat, or the burden of proof rests on he who asserts, not on he who denies.

Ei incumbit probatio, qui dicit, non qui negat; cum per rerum naturam factum negantis probatio nulla sit/The proof lies upon he who asserts, not upon he who denies; since, by the nature of things, he who denies a fact cannot produce any proof.

–The Latin legal principle of the burden of proof

First thing’s first, let’s look at the context; the feelings and events leading up to the accusation.

On November 29, 2010, FC Barcelona beats The Evil Empire 5-0. It was our fifth win in a row against them and it was a performance that awed many.

On February 28, 2011, EE coach Jose Mourinho accuses the RFEF of favouring FC Barcelona, citing the Liga fixture list favours the Catalan Club.

On March 13, 2011, Spanish radio station Cadena Cope broadcasted the news that that two clubs, FC Barcelona and Valencia CF, collaborate with doctors “who are less than reputable”. The programme also stated The Evil Empire will ask the Spanish Football Federation (RFEF) for tighter and more serious doping controls in Spanish football.

On March 14, 2011, FC Barcelona and Valencia CF vehemently denied these allegations and asked for an immediate retraction. Later that day, Cadena Cope issued an apology stating they got their information for a source from the Evil Empire.

On April 15, 2011, FC Barcelona officially took legal action against the station.

On April 27, 2011, after losing 0-2 to Barcelona, EE coach Jose Mourinho rants in his post match press conference of a UEFA, RFEF and Unicef based conspiracy in favour of FC Barcelona. The comments are outrageous and hold no basis.

On April 28, 2011, Madrid based TV show Punto Pelota release a manipulated video of the Pepe-Alves red card incident, taking out frames that had shown the contact.

On April 29, 2011, FC Barcelona file an official complaint to UEFA. FC Barcelona accuse Mourinho of slander and publicly deface the club.

On May 2, 2011, The Evil Empire back their coach and accuse FC Barcelona of unsporting behaviour, and file a complaint to UEFA as well. They want 8 Barcelona players suspended for the aforementioned unsporting behaviour. The Evil Empire also release a video on their official website, denouncing the appointment of the referee Franck De Bleeckere, as well as Barcelona players Sergio Busquets and Pedro Rodriquez as play actors. The video includes Busquets allegedly calling Marcelo a monkey; the clip is subtitled “mono, mono”.

The same day, UEFA dismissed the cases of the Evil Empire and FC Barcelona, who are referred to UEFA’s own investigation against the Evil Empire.

On May 3, 2011, after being eliminated from the Champions League, several EE players, including but not limited to, Cristiano Ronaldo, Xabi Alonso and Iker Casillas accused and/or denounced the referees of favouring Barcelona over both legs and/or influencing the tie.

On May 6, 2011, UEFA ban Mourinho for 5 games (one that is served and 2 that are suspended until later date) for his post-match comments. The Evil Empire say they will appeal the decision.

On May 12 2011, UEFA open an investigation against Sergio Busquets in light of racism allegations.

Now that we’ve gotten that out of the way, the next thing we look at regarding the Busi affair is Barca’s point of view:

  1. The accusations from or surrounding the Evil Empire; that is, the doping allegations, the fixture lists, and unsporting behaviour, have been strenuously denied and/or dismissed. Keep in mind the strength of an allegation comes from confidence the accuser is in good faith morally and there is conclusive evidence.
  2. At this point, all EE sources, specifically Xabi Alonso, have said to refer to the video regarding the racism allegations, rather than express the accusation verbally and committing to the stance. This is odd given the video has been put on their official website using the subtitles “mono, mono”.
  3. As the allegation isn’t a formal one at this point, it is not FC Barcelona’s job to acknowledge it. It is only an insinuation from an inconclusive video. The video is inconclusive because there are many interpretations of the video and what is being said is not clear.
  4. If FC Barcelona comment, even to deny the statement, it is committing to a stance and therefore acknowledging an accusation that is not directly expressed but touched on and implied, and one that has no real source as it is being spread virally (i.e. online, through the internet).
  5. It is The Evil Empire’s job to formally launch a complaint against FC Barcelona, or for UEFA to open an investigation. If the club of the player that has suffered an alleged racist slur is unwilling to commit and formally accuse Barcelona of the aforementioned slur to the governing body, there is absolutely no need for FC Barcelona to give the accusation any real weight. It is the accuser’s job to prove there is a case to be made.
  6. As said in the post before this, UEFA launched an investigation. At this point, The Evil Empire have comitted to the stance that Sergio Busquets has called Marcelo a monkey. Now that they are formally being accused, FC Barcelona have denied the accusation. Through their official media channel Barca TV, representative of Barcelona have relayed the message of Sergio Busquets who claims he has said “mucho morro”, or “what nerve”. Busquets has committed to the stance he is innocent now that there is an official accusation.
  7. It is now The Evil Empire’s job to prove that Busquets is lying. A video is not enough as it cannot count as proof. They need to prove, whether it is a verbal confession from Marcelo or otherwise, that Busquets has specially and definitely said “monkey, monkey” to Marcelo. The burden of proof rests on the one who asserts, not on the one who denies.

My personal thoughts on the issue:

Sergio Busquets is probably the most disliked player on the team. From the cule point of view, this hatred stemmed from his inexperience in the first team when he first came up in the 08/09 season. His backward headers caused many a counter attack, his passes were loose, conceding posession in dangerous areads and he has a penchant to go to ground easily. Many were frustrated at Guardiola’s persistence use of him instead on one The Yaya Toure, commencing a never ending debate coined the Busi-Yaya Debate. In the end, the Ivorian mountain left for cloudier skies and this move was met with anger and distain. This hatred towards Busi reached its apex last year in the 2nd leg of the CL semi-final; the infamous “peek-a-boo”. He is the one everyone loves to hate; never mind that he was Spain’s best player in this past WC but l digress.

For many, Busi is a diver. Because no team has ever had a embellisher on their team, being so morally superior than everyone else, and Busi is seen as the master, in the minds of many it’s not unthinkable that he would be a racist too. I mean, he’s already sullying the beautiful game with his rolls, why wouldn’t he call a person a monkey? We don’t really need proof — this implication from a rival who hates us and will do everything in their power to deride and belittle us is enough. Heck, our club is potentially backing a racist; how horrible is that? Oh, but Busi is innocent until proven guilty, of course.

I have one thing to say about this view: it’s bullsh*t.

I’m not sorry, and it is. People are letting their prejudice towards Busquets get in the way.  What makes it worse is that it is coming from cules as well.

Before people jump on my back and say “how dare you attack us, Kari!”, allow me explain. I have no problems with people who feel that Busi said “mono”. Zero, in fact.  If people want transparency from the club, I have no problems with that either — the biggest worry I had was that this would be swept under the carpet under the pretense that the tie is over and we move on.

I do have a problem with people who take the innocent until proven guilty stance, starting their sentences with “I know Busi isn’t guilty but if he is….” and then go on to lambaste the player. If you think he’s guilty, say so. Just say it. Otherwise, you fall into the category of “with fans like these, who needs detractors?”

If the club has a responsibility to be honest with the fans, the fans equally have a responsibility to trust the club. What is the point of transparency if the one being told is going to doubt what you say anyway? We, as fans, have a responsibility to our club.

Prior to the official complaint to UEFA, the source of these allegations came from a single video that was slowed down. Given that the video of the red card incident with Pepe and Alves were manipulated, who is to say this video wasn’t? We have basis — we have proof — to believe this — the aforementioned manipulated red card incident where frames were taken out. Do I think the video is altered some way? I don’t know. No one knows — except Marcelo and Busi.

I never bought the “EE aren’t saying anything because it stays on the pitch and if they put it on the official website, Marcelo must have been asked” argument. In fact, I’ll quote exactly what I had said:

I’m sticking my head out defending Busi, so I’ll be majorly pissed if he turns out guilty. The problem with “innocent until proven guilty” stance is that people aren’t sticking with it — the reaction is more “guilty until proven innocent” because of Busi’s rep.

Look, he gets a lot of crap, deservedly, but I just think there are so many reasons to think he’s innocent. It’s not fair that we automatically assume he’s guilty — none of us are lip-readers I’m assuming. I just don’t think the innocent until proven guilty camp are really thinking about the “innocent” part.

1) EE are throwing everything and the kitchen sink hoping something sticks. Mourinho is childish in that he thinks that if he can’t beat us, he’ll demean us and our achievements. His ego is that big and he seems to have a complex in regards to Barca.

2) There are no boundaries — EE are doing EVERYTHING, even if it has to be the race card. I just don’t think they are thinking anything through; that was confirmed when they wanted 8 of our player including Messi to be suspended. This is a team that complains about diving when the worst of the divers are on their team (TB and Dive Maria). Even their most respectable players have turned into whiners.

Since there are no boundaries, wouldn’t it be easier just to get Marcelo to say, “yeah, he said it”. Why do they do it? Because they don’t want that affirmation and they aren’t sure themselves. I don’t buy the “they must have asked Marcelo and that’s why they put it on their official website”. Players are openly deriding the ref, calling our players cheaters, and their website has derided the ref as well. Having Marcelo confirm one of our players said a racial slur would be the icing, right?

But they aren’t sure and they don’t want to firmly say it because they WANT the doubt. They WANT people to doubt Barca, about their stance. They want people to question, “Why aren’t they coming out with a statement?  Maybe something IS there and they don’t want to admit it”

And in the end, people will stop supporting the club — even before there is a definite answer.

EE and Mourinho are THAT despicable and I don’t think people realize this. It’s because it’s Busi and his rep that people are not sure. They think “Well, he’s done the diving, who’s to say he didn’t say ‘mono'”. That’s not fair.

4) We won’t investigate — UEFA will. Just like Pep said, “UEFA will decide. If he’s guilty, we’ll be very upset and we will take appropriate measures.” EE won’t force us to turn against our own player — we stand by Busi until proven otherwise. And I’m going to do that same.

Right now, we’re crucifying our player based on a video provided by our hated rivals who had refused to comment. Do we have that little trust in this club? Really? We talk about “In Pep We Trust” and “Visca Barca” and yet we abandon the club at the first sign of strife.

Sid Lowe claims our coach admitted Busi was guilty by using the wrong quotes, but people took his word as law and began castigating the club. In the time where The Evil Empire are doing everything and anything to make us look bad, we believe it this easily? Just use common sense for a second.

The lack of faith and support for the club and player is shocking as it is disappointing. Are we really that fair-weather?

As for right now, EE only have that video and they are using that video — which was uploaded by a fan of theirs on YouTube before it was taken down — and the point of it is to create doubt. They want people to doubt the club’s integrity and some of you are falling for it.

Did Busi say it? We don’t know, so why are we siding with Marcelo and EE instead of Busi and Barca? It seems that some want Busi to be guilty. Why? Will Busi being a racist make your prejudice against him that much easier? Will Busi being a racist mean he should have never been in the team and that will somehow bring Yaya back? Why in the world would you want a player on your team to be racist? Answer me that.

Remember when Pep called Mourinho “el puto jefe” of the press room? This is what he means, and the Bartomeu comments are just another example. Since people are so keen to read between the lines — rather than read what is actually being said, think about this for a second. He’s not just talking about Mourinho directly but all things EE.

EE have been launching a propaganda war against us from Day One. They are doing it now, like they have all season, like they will continue to do in the future. Mourinho is such a media man that people in the media will constantly be falling over themselves and discussing what he has and hasn’t said. They love the controversial characters that have no boundaries. They love to discuss and revel in the conspiracy theories, thinking “oooh, maybe this is what Mourinho means. Look!”

We can’t win their media war — we can’t compete and we don’t want to. We have given them their personal Champions League trophy.

What we have done is talk on the pitch and we have our reward — the chance to win the actual Champions.

EE are the sorest losers I have ever had the misfortune of seeing. They are doing everything they can to belittle our achievements and people are given them an alley.

Of course they are going to have their hands in all the media sources, and you’re going to hear that kind of stuff against us. PEP SAID THAT. We can’t compete! You want to constantly read between the lines? Read between those lines!

EE has launched a propaganda war against us, who has back their coach who said we are in cahoots with UEFA, and we take their word over our own team’s on such a sensitive issue like this? Seriously?

We talk about the potential hypocrisy, but why not use to the fact we’ve produced anti-racism campaigns as proof our player is innocent? We have the altercation with Keita and Arbeloa in the same match at HT. Our normally mild mannered Malian reacted angrily — it is said that Arbeloa may have said a racist slur to him as well, but this isn’t talked about. Why? “Because we’re not sure. There’s no conclusive evidence”.

My thoughts exactly.

Just think about the timing of all these accusations for a second. We beat them at home, they create a media storm, throwing everything and the kitchen sink in hopes to distract people from their lame tactics they used. It worked. We win La Liga and they postpone their CDR tour until the day after. And then this investigation comes into light. They want our Liga win overshadowed. It worked.

I’ve said since the Alves manipulated video that anything that comes out is bullsh*t until proven legitimate. This is what’s going on.

This is serious business. Racism is not a joke. “Duh,” you say, “that’s why this is so big”, but I don’t think some of you really understand. Because racism is such a big deal, the accusers– the people bringing this upmust have a conclusive case. It’s either/or, not fudging around to sully the name of their bitter rivals. As an institution, a club of high stature, EE are putting their heads out that Busi DID say “mono” even though it hasn’t been confirmed. They’re taking this to another level and they need to be held accountable if this proves false. There is no half-assing, “oh well, I thought he said…” No. You brought this up and you better be sure you’re right, especially now that they’ve made a formal accusation.

Our club didn’t have to respond before, because no one accused them and there was no reason for them to say anything. The doping incident is different — the comments were made public, on record, and crucially, from a single direct source. We were accused and we responded and now we’re doing the same.

For all the crap Busi deservingly gets, I’ll stand by him on this one. Fudge him to heck if he said it, but considering people are taking out frames to make us seem like cheaters, I will give him the benefit of the doubt. And I ask which is worse: defending and housing a potential racist, or condemning a man of being racist based on prejudice rather than concrete evidence? I know my answer.

I’ll be majorly and truly pissed if he’s guilty because I’m sticking my head out and am defending him, but this is what the innocent until proven guilty stance is.

Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat

And we stand by our team, waiting for the pieces to fall into place like everyone else.

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115 Comments

  1. caosanping
    May 13, 2011

    I support on what you said, XavIniestAbidaLeo. It’s frustrated to see people doubt our player without solid evidence. I hadn’t watched the video before and I did it today. To me the two words said by Busi is definitely not the same. I only trust what I saw. So I trust him. Unless EE has stronger evidence than this lip-reading thing, I stand by our player.

    Just a loosely-related thing, does anybody know the whole story about Pep’s being accused of doping when he played in Italy? He was wrongly accused of doping and he spent more than 10 years fighting against the accusation until he got his name cleared recently. I watched the video about Pep’s statement right after the accusation saying he will spend his whole life to clean his name even that means he will go bankruptcy. The case was not closed until the second year of Pep’s coaching era at Barca (if my memory is correct). If Busi thinks he is innocent, he should do the same and fight until the end.

    • Dalmar
      May 13, 2011

      Barcelona VP says they would never report racism on the pitch

      “[W]e would not do this. We don’t do it and we won’t do it. We respect what happens on the field and we won’t get involved with what happens on the field. It appears that Madrid is not doing this and they are losing this señorío that the club has always had. I don’t want to talk about the issues of a club that is not mine, but I will just say that we would never do it because it appears to be an exaggeration to us.

      “I don’t understand why Busquets should miss out on the final. That’s something that surprises us a lot. The referee is the one who makes decisions on the field. Depriving Busquets, who is having a sensational season, of the final seems very excessive to us and we’re very upset. I don’t know what Señor Busquets said and what they were talking about, but they are things that happen all the time in football. If we have to put a camera on each player to follow what they say or do, this will become a circus. Football has triumphed, along with fair play…”

      ——————————

      It is more than Busi now, it is about Barcelona as an institution, at least in the eyes of the world, The quote from Barca VP shows the mental frame Barcalona’s culture in dealing with Racism.

  2. caosanping
    May 13, 2011

    Just another random thought, some cules are worrying our images are damaged no matter what by EE’s accusation. I don’t deny that. But I think EE’s image is also damaged by their own doings. Not mentioning the ruthless tackles on the pitch, just watch what they did off the pitch. Every other team who will compete them in the future will wonder what EE will do if they win against them. Will they list all the favors the other team has received and throw out the conspiracy theory? They did it once with Sevilla after the first round league game. Will they go through the match video thoroughly and collect “evidence” and appeal for banning opponents’ players even EE already lost the tie? I thought I would only see such behaviors among politicians. I never thought it would happen in football, which essentially is just a game. Maybe some people really think football is higher than life and death. So they will do whatever to damage their rivals, if they can’t kill them on the pitch. To me, football is just for fun. If it goes ugly like this, nobody would even bother watching it any longer. I really doubt anybody who has got tired from work for a whole day would love to see such endless soap episope. As pep said, it’s nearly ended. Let’s wait until Monday. For now, I am with Busi.

  3. Benj
    May 13, 2011

    Good one, I beleive Busi and until hardcore evidence comes out to prove otherwise, I believe and trust him, the players and pep.

    PS: you mentioned that the Alves – Pepe video was doctored but I cant find one where he makes contact??

    PPS: Can we please have our gravvy-gravs back?

    • caosanping
      May 13, 2011

      Milan newspapers had headline pictures showing Pep contacted Alves. As was using that picture for a short while and then they switched to a picture without showing the contact next day. This already tells you something. I have frame-by-frame pictures from the video. But I don’t know how to upload it here. If you search internet, you will for sure find the evidence of a contact.

  4. May 13, 2011

    Can i get an opinion on what you guys thought of Josep María Bartomeu said in an interview on the radio today? In case you haven’t gotten the translation, here is what he said:

    “we would not do this. We don’t do it and we won’t do it. We respect what happens on the field and we won’t get involved with what happens on the field. It appears that Madrid is not doing this and they are losing this señorío that the club has always had. I don’t want to talk about the issues of a club that is not mine, but I will just say that we would never do it because it appears to be an exaggeration to us.

    I don’t understand why Busquets should miss out on the final. That’s something that surprises us a lot. The referee is the one who makes decisions on the field. Depriving Busquets, who is having a sensational season, of the final seems very excessive to us and we’re very upset. I don’t know what Señor Busquets said and what they were talking about, but they are things that happen all the time in football. If we have to put a camera on each player to follow what they say or do, this will become a circus. Football has triumphed, along with fair play…”

    I will refrain from my opinion since emotions are high, and anything coming from a Madrid mouth will be taken severely. I just found the above statement rather interesting

    • can_we_go_Xalvies
      May 13, 2011

      please stop, this is just going to feed the wrong kind of discussion

    • caosanping
      May 13, 2011

      You will think his comment is rather interesting if you tend to believe Busi is guilty. Just see what happened to Sid Lowe’s tweeter. He didn’t go to the match conference. But he read the report from Marca which wrongly quoted Pep’s comment on Pedro as to Busi. Then he thought Pep’s comment implies Busiquets is guilty. Same thing happens here. If you think he is implying Busiquets said something about racism, then you will see it from his lines. But I think he is generally speaking about players’ bad words/acts on the pitch and whether it makes sense to accuse every single misbehavior of your opponent after a match.

      The best example is the Zidane-headbutts-Materazzi case. Until today nobody knows what exactly Materazzi said. I am sure it’s something really bad and he should be punished. But did Zidane or French football federation ever report his words to FIFA? What happened on the pitch stays on the pitch. If every team follow RM’s example and collect evidence to accuse more than half players of their opponent after each match, UEFA and FIFA will have piles of files to deal with everyday, because players can get emotional on the pitch and say dirty words or do dirty things. The whole football world will be filled with such non-sport issues and the headline of newspapers will be no longer the beauty of football. Do you really want to see such thing to happen?

      I am not defending Busi’s diving or his bad words. If he is proven guilty, there will be measurements against him. At the same time, RM already started a new era of football (I am borrowing Mou’s lines on Pep)—if you can’t win on the pitch, then try to do so off the pitch.

      • May 13, 2011

        Actually, in the Zidane issue, they did. And Materazzi was fined and suspended. And obviously, as a Real Madrid fan, i am going to believe my player before i believe Busi. I do not deny that at all. Just like i expect any Barcelona fan to believe Busi and not Marcelo.

        The issue has been sealed to many. I don’t personally expect UEFA to make a decision that deems Busi guilty. Why? Well you can click on my name since i just wrote something about that. For me its a direction in which Racism is being dealt with. I hate that we, Real Madrid, ended up putting that video on the website. This is not how a campaign against racism should have be dealt with out of respect to Marcelo. But at the same time, the whole “whats said on the field should stay on the field” issue is something i completely disagree with. We are not talking about simple cursing, we are talking about racism (again, if it exists).

        Anyways, both stadiums witnessed monkey chants in the two Clasico’s. It’s disappointing that both clubs didn’t come out with a statement to condemn that. (Graham hunter confirmed that there was monkey chants in the first Clasico and the last one).

        • caosanping
          May 13, 2011

          I agree if it’s about racism, then it doesn’t follow the “whats said on the field should stay on the field” issue. Because it’s no longer about a sport, it’s about humanity. What I am trying to point out for your attention here is that RM accused 8 players of Barca, Busi, Pinto ( I think he deserved the ban), Pedro, Valdes, Keita, Messi, and Iniesta. RM even accused Pep ordered the players to dive on the pitch. I can’t think what Messi and Iniesta could have done wrong. But obviously RM has found some “solid” evidence to present to UEFA and hope to get these players banned. Personally I think Josep María Bartomeu is talking about RM exaggerating what happens on the pitch such as being listed above. But again I am Cule and I am always biased. I just want to hear your opinion about RM’s appealing against Barca players and coach. On Busi’s case, we will wait for the judgment from UEFA. I don’t think it really helps to quote people’s vague statements and try to read the behind meanings to convince people one is guilty or not guilty.

          • May 13, 2011

            Well as i mentioned, i don’t think that statement has anything to do with IF Busi said something or not. It is like what Kxevin said, a case of rivalry gone bad. A lot of people are saying that the comments made by the vice president are not the right ones to make at the moment. His comments was referring to the decision made by UEFA to investigate.

            Again my purpose from the post was to get a cules perspective on what was said. I find it that when something happens at my club, its the fans that know most about it, while people outside the club tend to just speculate.

            And for what it’s worth, i was against my club going to UEFA with those complaints. The only one that i would have done was the Pinto one. But diving and cheating is something that is wrong, but prominent in todays game. And we are guilty of it just as much as the next club that comes along. Dive Maria speaks for himself in the diving department!

        • mintmocha
          May 13, 2011

          For me its a direction in which Racism is being dealt with.

          Yes. Thank you for stating that.

          Racism is such a sensitive and personal issue that should go beyond club and country. There are a hundred ways in which we could have dealt with this situation in a mature and classy manner, but unfortunately, we’re all beyond that now.

    • May 13, 2011

      Actually, my post is really wrong to put up there without clarification. I just wanted to get “another perspective” other than the one my Madrid biased mind provides. I deeply apologize for not clarifying that. With all “English” media stations discussing these words, I haven’t heard a pro opinion on it. And i thought hey, what better place than here. In no way am i trying to provoke any of you here, and if it appears so, then my apologies. Again, the Moderator can delete it.

      • caosanping
        May 13, 2011

        No need to apologize. This is a place for free speech, though I think you don’t have to listen to other people’s thoughts to make your judgment. For such a case, only evidence will speak loudly. It’s like the debate if Obama was born in USA. The republic wanted the birth certificate while Obama thought it’s waste of time to question his nationality and refused to show such evidence. But finally he did and the heat around this debate can cool down, at least for a while. Let’s see if there is evidence to serve the justice. I will only support truth based on solid evidence.

    • caosanping
      May 13, 2011

      I have watched these videos several times. But it’s never enough for me. Somehow what happened after the Classico series make me appreciate the achievement by our team even more. Usually after winning three years in a row, especially two matches in advance this year, it makes the victory look too easy and not worthy mentioning. But after thinking back about all the difficulties we have been through, the ridiculous doping accusation, Abidal’s tumor, and now this, I heartedly think our team has done something really great. This Liga title is even better than the previous two. Visca Barca!

    • BarcaGirl_Indo
      May 13, 2011

      I’ll download it! yeeaaayy! thanks! 😀

    • Jnice
      May 13, 2011

      Love the Cuatro cameras. Always something different.

  5. BarcaGirl_Indo
    May 13, 2011

    I was just gonna post a comment on prevous thread, and says :
    “Kari, please make a new post related to football and our La Liga celebration, please?”
    😀

    oh, well…I just want to comment on this :

    I’ll be majorly and truly pissed if he’s guilty because I’m sticking my head out and am defending him, but this is what the innocent until proven guilty stance is.

    yes, Kari… we might be defending a guilty person, a liar…
    but we also might be on right side, defending a totally innocent person from evil souls…
    and that’s what the innocent until proven guilty stance is…

    it’s their words against our words…
    and without any legitimate proof, as a cule I prefer to believe my own club than to believe that team…

  6. 145culegirl
    May 13, 2011

    My comment got hectored which i made in the last post.It is very long but I felt I must state those in a more sensible site.

    Madrid has,throughout the year,tried various methods to disintegrtae our club.Accusations like we paying the schedulers of Liga,UEFA and referees,downgrading our wins and the worse of all being the doping allegations.We,someow stumbled out of it and cleared our name.But it is not cleared in the minds of others.Calling us divers,cheaters and love child of FIFA and UEFA is a testament to those accusations.

    Now after those Clasicos,another new accusation being rascists have been surfaced.These,too have Madrid as the ones accusing and Barca as the victims.We have proved the above allegations somehow being wrong(Doping issue).But Racism issue is hard to solve because of lack of evidence.With Busquets denying the claims and Marcelo still not opening his mouth is making things difficult and making people jump to conclusions that THERE IS SOMEONE GUILTY and that being Barca because of their already a bit tarnished image.Same being applied to Busi.His already bad reputation is making him clear guilty.

    I’m trying to say that Madrid made many allegations to degrade us.Ironically,in that process they have degraded themselves.But that’s another issue.We,as supporters of the club should stand by Busi.I think there’s no chance of him saying that.He’s been at Barca from his childhood and I can say that he has been a part of Barca family for more years than Xavi himself(Though by a slight margin).So,we can’t expect a player who has Barca values instigated in him from his birth.

    I praying hard for Busi that he is proved innocent.If Madrid are proved guilty of accusing Barca without any rock-solid evidence,then IT should be the club that should be banned.Yes,BANNED from participating in UEFA competitions.It may be very harsh but Madrid got away with nothing more than a bit tarnished reputation.

    I apologise for my very long-ish post and hurt any of your sentiments(If its a Madrid fan in this forum).

  7. Judas Pissed
    May 13, 2011

    EE under moanrinhos reign of nonsense are a bitter & twisted organisation trying everything & anything to discredit possibly one of the greatest teams ever assembled.

    Soggy is a World Cup winning midfielder whose only ‘crime’ is that he dives a bit too much (the ONLY player in the world who does if you read the British press).

    UEFA will throw this crap out next week – whereupon EE will demand the EU confiscates our passports so we cannot travel to London

    HATERS GONNA HATE AND PLAYERS GON’ PLAY!

    CAMPIONS!

  8. culegirl3
    May 13, 2011

    145culegirl: According to Tomas Roncero(the crazy man from Punto Pelota) if Madrid pull out of the CL, UEFA and the Champions League would be nothing. That obviously proves there is something in the drinking water over in Madrid. Whatever it is, I don’t want any of it.

    Regardless of whether they have a legit case, these clowns from EE won’t apologize to anyone unless forced. Barcelona will have to sue the living hell out of them and hopefully damage their reputation like they have tried doing to us. I agree with you Kari on the fact that this witch hunt from the culés is because of an already established dislike for Busquets. I’m 100% guilty of that because frankly, I despise him and am dumbfounded by his antics on the field despite being a good player.

    Honestly, I’m sick to death about this entire fiasco. You would think that our boys would be able to celebrate in peace and enjoy this hard earned and LEGIT win of La Liga but no. Madrid dropped their ice cream and now everyone has to hear about it and pay for it, particularly Barcelona. No one disrupted Madrid’s CDR win, why must they rain on our parade? Because they cannot and will not except the fact that they have played the game and lost. Where is EE’s dignity? Where is their self respect? I think it was lost in the trash the moment they decided to hire Jose Mourinho or hell maybe it was lost when they brought Florentino back into the picture. Who knows. The only thing that is a fact here is that Real Madrid is as classless as they come. I would love to see EE fire Mou and fix their ridiculous situation but these people are so beyond the point of no return that I only forsee even more of a circus next season with Mou at the forfront and Barcelona having to deal with even more drama(as if it is even possible). I used to like Madrid a little bit, heck I paid good money to see them practice last year at UCLA and watch their game at the rose bowl but I would have never guessed that things would end up like this. It’s a shame. That so called Madridismo in my eyes is nothing but a joke and an empty meaningless word now. Some of us culés used to have respect for EE but thats dead and over with.

    As far as Barcelona is concerned, let’s party guys! We shouldn’t let this overshadow the fact that Barca is the most amazing team in the world compromised of kick**s players who are worth more than 250mil 😛

    • BarcaGirl_Indo
      May 13, 2011

      culegirl3, 145culegirl,

      which one of you from India?
      I believe I discussed Bollywood movie with one of you…
      is it 145culegirl?

      sorry, I cant remember precisely… 😛

    • BarcaGirl_Indo
      May 13, 2011

      I used to like Madrid a little bit,

      heck, back in 2000, the first time I watched football,
      Raul and Casillas was my favourite players… they’re handsome, gotta admit that… 😆
      I still respect them until now, though…

      I also admire Zidane very much…but I never like the club, I always felt there’s something wrong with them, especially with their mega million galacticos project…

      • 145culegirl
        May 13, 2011

        yes,it was me(Bollywood discussion) and I’m an Indian.

      • culegirl3
        May 13, 2011

        Casillas is even more handsome in person BarcaGirl_Indo! I have the pictures to prove it 🙂 While everyone else was falling over(and jumping barricades) for thong boy, I literally had Casillas to myself for 2 minutes lol.

        I’m uber pissed that EE is thinking of getting rid of my beloved Benzema <3

        There is something wrong with EE, they don't use their canteranos. I have no idea why any kid would want to be a part of their program if they know in reality they are not valued even before they begin their time at the cantera. And they let Raul go…that was one of the stupidest things they have done(besides acquiring the services of the useless one)

        • BarcaGirl_Indo
          May 13, 2011

          I believe that… even my dad, who is 100% straight of course, said that in person Casillas must be a very very handsome guy… lol…

          Thong Boy? not even once I had crush on him, never ever ever ever…
          hate him and his attitude since 2007…

          my best friend (a cule) is crazy for Casillas…
          every El Clasico, she screamed for two things :
          1. when Barça scored/almost scored
          2. when the camera shot Iker’s face 😆

          • culegirl3
            May 13, 2011

            TB isn’t anything special in person but I was shocked at how tall he is and how little his training shorts were 0.0

            The real looker in EE is Xabi Alonso. He is as perfect in person as he is in pictures.

          • BarcaGirl_Indo
            May 13, 2011

            gotta admit this too, eventhough I hate EE to death,
            I won’t reject a chance to meet Kaka, Iker, Higuain, Benzema, and and Alonso…

            girls will be girls… 😛

    • 145culegirl
      May 13, 2011

      According to Barcastuff,

      Iker Casillas said that as we(Barca) congratulated them after the Copa win,he and his team would follow the suit and congratulate us on our win and did so.

      My god,any one interested in how to change your words in a nanosecond,then madrid is the best place.

      • 145culegirl
        May 13, 2011

        oops,this was my reply to culegirl3

        • culegirl3
          May 13, 2011

          IDK if its just me, but do you think Mou has brainwashed Casillas? His comments as of late appear to be be very Mou-esque almost like he was given a script written by the useless one himself.

  9. outerspacedout
    May 13, 2011

    @MillaJovovich Milla Jovovich
    anyway, i’m in Donetsk, Ukraine to sing happy bday for the ukrainian soccer team “Shakhtar” ala marilyn monroe! too cute!

    @MillaJovovich Milla Jovovich
    i think they want me bursting out of a cake too! lololol! classic. how is every1 doing in the twitterverse?
    8 minutes ago

    I no longer feel bad for Shakhtar for meeting us in the CL. Or for Chygrynsky. Ok? They are getting that level of greatness. Pfft.

    • outerspacedout
      May 13, 2011

      Ah ah my brain is gonna melt. My drain is bripping out of my ears actually. How can someone be that gorgeous I don’t know

      • BarcaGirl_Indo
        May 13, 2011

        oh, outer… 😆

        her face is… exotic, huh?

        is that the right word?

  10. Cesc Pistol
    May 13, 2011

    I’d bet nothing would happen to him if had called Ramos a donkey or horse-face. Hell, all these “holier than thou” fans calling for Busi’s head have done so themselves. I don’t see how it’s different than calling him a monkey or any other animal.

    All aboard the hypocrite PC bandwagon! Next stop: The Plastic Fan’s town.

  11. Megster
    May 13, 2011

    Whatever bad press we’re having right now, it’s all caused by the EE propaganda machine. And the timing couldn’t be even better. They exactly know when to ‘expose’ us. I would not be surprised if there would be another one, if we win the CL.

  12. This an economic profile of Florentino Perez….
    http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/10/billionaires-2010_Florentino-Perez_6IVF.html

    Seeing this I actually wonder.. does a guy with so much power and so much money actualy allow someone like Mourinho just take over and use real madrid as a puppet?!
    Well no! I really don’t think mister Flo-Flo doesn’t really know what is happening…NO ONE becomes so succesful in a field such as construction without knowing some dirty tricks himself…
    There are no friction in madrid both men KNOW what they are doing. Flo-Flo is NO fool and he definetly has power and control a part of the media. Only Valadano perhaps doesn’t really get whats going on and that why he has been swept aside…
    This sh*t will only clear out if we leave them with nothing (or with the copa at worst)next year…Then they’ll start puting the blame on each other…We have to be strong for at least one more year!

    • outerspacedout
      May 13, 2011

      Agreed on both counts.

      Especially on how if we sweep the board with trophies again next year, that’ll probably be a big step towards the end of Mourinho and this era of Real Madrid, management-wise (not playing staff wise, of course, most of their squad are extremely young and very talented).

      And no reason why we can’t sweep the board with the major trophies next season either. We’ll have this same extremely talented squad barring any freak occurrences, plus it seems almost definite we will have both a marquee signing up front as well as more defenders and depth throughout the squad with signings + Thiago and Fontas promotions.

      And except for isolated games we haven’t really looked really beatable at any point over the past three seasons. And when we were, it was things that we can learn from and fix:

      – Not letting complacency get to you, against Sevilla in Copa del Rey last year + Messi has gotten much more lethal and our play has become more fluid
      – The lack of width and thrust on one whole flank against Inter without Iniesta and Abidal, which we remedied now with Villa and a fit Iniesta and Abidal + having capable attack-minded and workaholic subs for Iniesta and Abidal in Afellay and Adriano
      – Being unsettled with the directness and outright physicality of Real Madrid in the Copa del Rey first half, to which we adjusted well in the second half and two subsequent games

      So no reason to believe we can’t storm to at least the main two titles bar, God forbid, any disasters or major injuries.

  13. Eklavya
    May 13, 2011

    Nicely explained, Kari, well done. This is going to be my position as well.

  14. outerspacedout
    May 13, 2011

    Arsenal, Chelsea & Manchester United battling it out for Barcelona’s Hector Bellerin.

    Young attacker Hector Bellerin could be on his way out of Barcelona’s youth academy at the end of the season, as the 16-year-old has received offers from Arsenal, Aston Villa, Chelsea and Manchester United, Sport reports.

    The highly-rated winger is considered to be one of the most promising youngsters to emerge from La Masia, and the Catalan giants are keen to hold on to him.

    However, the attacker has turned down a contract offer from the Camp Nou club, as he has allegedly set his sights on a move to the Premier League.

    The player has yet to officially decide where he wants to continue his career, but is widely expected to agree terms with Arsenal in the upcoming weeks. The Gunners will have to pay Barcelona compensation of €400,000 as part of the deal.

    Never heard the name Hector Bellerin here before, and this is a space where people discuss our youth a lot isn’t it? The youth names I remember are Deulofeu, Espinosa, Rafinha, Dalmau, Etock, Samper etc etc from among the kids (as in below Barca B). Anyone know anything about Bellerin?

  15. outerspacedout
    May 13, 2011

    Also, apparently Adriano is passed as fit for the next league game!

    This is awesome news, it looks like we’ll have a full squad minus Milito for the CL final. Should be awesome. We didn’t have our full-backs in the CL final last time around, and now I’m feeling really confident about our best starting eleven, with the two more weeks of rest as well.

  16. Jnice
    May 13, 2011

    Great job, Kari. I’ve felt this way from the jump and will continue to unless he’s proven guilty.

    • BarcaGirl_Indo
      May 13, 2011

      how cute Pedrito’s girlfriend is the one who ride the car… 😀

      and Piquira is nowhere to be seen…

      • Jnice
        May 13, 2011

        and Piquira is nowhere to be seen…

        Fashionably late, I bet.

        Busquets looks lonely. Somebody find him a partner lol.

        Puyol refuses to dress up, huh? Malena wearing a nice dress and Puyol decides to wear a t-shirt haha.

        • blitzen
          May 13, 2011

          Don’t diss Puyol, the man just knows what looks good on him! No one rocks a t-shirt and jeans like he does.

          Xavi doesn’t have a date either, I see.

          • Ian
            May 13, 2011

            He’s too preoccupied with Barça that getting a WAG doesn’t seem to bother him at all :’D

  17. May 13, 2011

    I was going to post the Bartomeu comments that Bassam posted above. Clearly what he meant was “What happens on the pitch stays on the pitch.” Not sure why he didn’t just say that, rather than using language that many will construe to mean that “FC Barcelona supports on-pitch racism!” as one possible headline might read.

    But I think that his intent is clear: “You guys are being idiots in trying to drag this stuff out in the public, and we wouldn’t do that.” I just don’t think, as many Web outlets are already interpreting his statements, that we condone on-pitch racism.

    Also, nice piece, Kari. Easy to agree with, which I know will shock the folks who believe that I think Busquets is guilty. 😀

  18. justsayin
    May 13, 2011

    Kxevin – because in my eyes you are “BFB” I think you are wrong in expressing your doubts. Simple as that. True, you have not directly said that Busquets is guilty but the implication is there and with out giving a person a fair trail, I think it’s irresponsible. It’s like me saying that I read that you bought a new Barca jersey so I’m doubting if you didn’t use the donation I gave the blog to buy yourself something instead. Not saying you did it, but …..
    Because I admire the way you express yourself so eloquently and intelligently in your posts I thought you would not write about your doubts until after an investigation. You speak of asking for transparency as if that is just a simple request, but presumption of innocence is a legal right and the burden of proof is on the prosecution. I support your right to free speech, but I’m disappointed you didn’t refrain from passing “doubt” on the incident until it was warranted.

    • dennise
      May 13, 2011

      Yeah, Kxkevin maybe quietly regrets it but his post only added fuel to the fire – in fact, most of juping on the gun were reactions AFTER Kxevin’s posts.

      Even if Kxkevin did not intend it, his post clearly helped to pave the way to “busi is not guily, because of you know he is from diving, cheating and UEFA bribing barca.”

      The best policy could have been “keep quiet til official statement from UEFA”

      • May 13, 2011

        Nope. There you folks go again, putting words in my mouth. Let’s be clear about this:

        The club handled it wrong.

        Now those words are safe, because you’re reading them. The club talked to Busquets about what he said, and I’m betting that Guardiola knew it during the press conference at which he was asked about the allegations. Either he, Freixa or Busquets should have said something. If the players weren’t being allowed to talk to the press, then somebody should have said something.

        Waiting until official charges came down just makes the club look as though it was laying low, hoping nothing would happen. And again, without fear of equivocation or misinterpretation, that was wrong, in my opinion.

        What my post did is what any blog post should do: Generate frank and honest discussion. Period. That’s why we write this stuff.

        @justsayin: I vehemently disagree with your supposition that I was/am wrong to express my doubts. It is the obligation of any thinking cule/soci to support the club in every way, even if it means calling it out and hoping it will do better. I did that when the club sold the shirt, when RoSELL made the comments about African kids at La Masia, etc. And I will do it again the next time the club should do better.

        What’s irresponsible is putting your own spin on another person’s words. I have not directly said that Busquets is guilty because I don’t really have an opinion one way or the other, and don’t particularly care.

        The presumption of innocence is assumed. Further, it’s a notion that was not transgressed by anything that I have written, except by people who didn’t read it clearly, or wish to make the words say things that they didn’t mean. Words don’t lie. Interpretations of words lie. All the time.

        “Doubt” is healthy. I’d rather have doubt than blind, unswerving belief. If you don’t question your beliefs, you don’t examine them. And if you don’t examine them, how do you know what you believe?

  19. I might be in the minority of 1, but I find the Bartomeu comments rather funny actually. I mean, don’t we have a PR department or some such entity that’s supposed to vet these things? Anyway, the most I can accuse Barca of is “foot in mouth” disease. It’s obvious what he meant (and no he wasn’t supporting or encouraging racism, for heaven’s sake), unless you want it to mean something else, and it’s a free world, we can all read what we want into it.

    Looking forward to more celebration pics and videos from today!! Should be fun!

  20. Ian
    May 13, 2011

    It’s a smear campaign, the vid was an opening, I think they’ll fail yet again. Everything you have written, Kari, I stand by. I am hoping with all my might that Busi comes out innocent, otherwise I will be as majorly and truly pissed as you are.

    Meanwhile, Busi and co are preparing for something else tonight… #campionsFCB 🙂

  21. Helge
    May 13, 2011

    The timeline was very helpful, Kari. And I agree with pretty much everything you said.

    Leaving the racism allegations aside, from my point of view EE has already gone too far before posting the Busquets video. I am honestly not looking forward to the next la Liga season, because I believe the EE anti-Barça propaganda and the Mourinho-criticism will go on. The last weeks have already taken away a lot of the joy that is football to me…
    Mourinho has been Llourinho for his whole career, he will never change. And to be honest, I cannot do anything but laugh about his allegations. He just repeats himself again and again, he criticizes in a most hypocritical way. I can cope with that.
    But I cannot cope with the obvious intention of EE to destroy our reputation (again, I’m not even referring to the racism allegation, because I will not judge them until it’s proven or disproven), their video-faking, their (not Mourinho’s, but the whole club’s!) pre-match-ref-criticism etc.
    They are about to destroy some of my love for Spanish football… it has never been so ugly before.

  22. blitzen
    May 13, 2011

    From the official website (translated):

    Freixa: “Sergio has refused to make racist insults”

    The secretary and spokesman of the Board of FC Barcelona, Toni Freixa , said Sergio Busquets denied that he uttered racist insults at a player of R. Madrid. He described “the unusual” open disciplinary proceedings to the player.

    Toni Freixa, secretary and spokesman of the Board said in FC Barcelona Barça TV program, DNA Barca, the club’s position on opening a disciplinary Sergio Busquets by UEFA for alleged racist insults during the first leg of the Champions League semifinal against Real Madrid. Freixa said the player has said that the accusations are false: “When we started to circulate images by YouTube, we talk with the player and told us that the allegations are false and that what he said is” mucho morro”. It said that Real Madrid says in his complaint. ”

    The spokesman pointed out that the club board “does not ask UEFA to sanction any Busquets even though it has opened disciplinary proceedings. What happens is that there is a UEFA disciplinary inspector requests that the Control and Disciplinary Committee to sanction Busquets. Interestingly, these last is the same inspector who called for sanctions to Iniesta for forcing a yellow card in the match against Shakhtar.

    Freixa described it as “unusual and incredible” that the inspector based his report on the material provided by Real Madrid in its appeal against the appeal • Policy reports that the file was requested for the sanction to eight players.

    FC Barcelona will present this Friday the allegations relevant to UEFA to keep open the file. “We are at an early stage of what could be a great injustice. If the file is opened, presenting more allegations. Hopefully UEFA maintain a serious approach and, as before, continue to protect the good, “said Toni Freixa.

    http://www.fcbarcelona.com/web/catala/noticies/futbol/temporada10-11/05/12/n110512117432.html

  23. SoccerMom
    May 13, 2011

    Sergi (as noted in the last post) claims he said that Marcelo “tiene mucho morro”.

    And then everyone said, “Oh, phew, ‘morro’ is not ‘mono’. It just means ‘to have a lot of nerve.'”

    There are a few ways to express “to have a lot of nerve” in Spanish.

    One popular way is “to have a hard face” (tener cara dura). This is expressed in the gesture of tapping the palm of your hand or backs of your fingers against your cheek. Players do this all the time, especially to the sideline officials, but then they risk a card.

    A less popular, but still current, way to express this is to say “tener mucho morro”.

    “Morro”, by the way, means “big lips”.

    What a relief.

      • SoccerMom
        May 13, 2011

        From El Diccionario de la Real Academia Española (DRAE):

        2. m. Labios de una persona, especialmente los abultados.
        (A person’s lips, especially swollen / large ones)

        8. m. coloq. Descaro, desfachatez: “Tener, echarle morro”
        (Colloquial: Insolence, lack of respect)

        The ‘snout’ refers to animals.

        • soccermomof4
          May 13, 2011

          1. m. Parte de la cabeza de algunos animales en que están la nariz y la boca.
          (i.e.the snout)

          Don’t neglect the first definition!!!

  24. just listenin
    May 13, 2011

    Thanks for this post. We’ve been kind of sad and frustrated in our, cut us and we bleed red and blue, Blaugrana lovin’ household that there hasn’t been more of a fair minded approach toward Busquets. Fairness isn’t easy to come by, fair mindedness can be even more elusive. People get pushed to the limits, emotions flare, and fairness can be one of the first casualties of war.

    I think we’re missing something if we don’t acknowledge the broader context outlined in the post. There is a campaign of character assassination directed at the club and it is having an effect which is saddening. This whole Busi incident is just a piece of it, and which are the legitimate gripes and which are smoke & mirrors became unclear to the point of absurdity a while ago already for me (and for perpetrators if you ask me). You watch Barca week in week out and watch them play absolutely stunning football at a level that makes you think “I am seeing something special”, one of those rare moments when you’re privileged to see a display of human excellence and a coincidence of personalities and talents that doesn’t come along often, like the Beatles or something. Just when it should be being enjoyed (and it was, think about the crescendo of praise before all this started) for it’s pure quality regardless of your allegiances, and appreciated and heaped with gratitude for taking things to this level – then, a few weeks of heated rivalry and Machiavellian manipulation and the seeds of doubt are sown, cules infighting and turning on our own… just sad. Really seems like an effort to tarnish the brilliance after an amazing season. I could be wrong, but jeez, some sour grapes… vinegar. By design initially me thinks, and then a runaway train of believing their own BS? A wise friend once told misery doesn’t enjoy company, it demands it, and EE has been suffering at our doing for a while now.

    Maybe I feel like my intelligence is being insulted too often, but I can’t help but feel like serious efforts have been made to manipulate people’s thinking over the last several weeks… When a team is outclassed and outmatched they may feel desperate and make decisions to push the limits on the rules of fair play to gain advantage… But you can’t do this if you aren’t willing to accept possible consequences, and at some point you have to call BS on yourself and face up to the facts. Turns out, they didn’t have the capacity for the last piece of facing up, and started believing their own manipulations. For instance, why always 10 men? Porque? because you tried to chop and hatchet down our players like trees (very small tress, maybe shrubs…OK, very elegant bonsai trees) They should have been down to 9, or 8 men a couple of different times. And so for Barca?, if the calls aren’t coming, what do you do? Do you influence perception to draw attention?, or wait for a season ending tackle? (see Montoya a week later on the heels of a bad tackle), or worse career ending tackle? – my youngest son exaggerates attacks from his older brother too when he thinks the cunning of the older one is letting him get away sight unseen with a little too much knockin’ him around. From what I saw, I almost understand the over reactions when viewed in the context of the weeks of Clasicomaggedon. I’ve tried to keep examining my loyalties and any resulting biases and I keep coming up with this – something about all that’s going on doesn’t feel right. It’s a campaign, and this post is spot on – I’m not convinced anyone knows the truth anymore, who knows what happened? I’m getting increasingly frustrated with it given the context, I think that’s what Bartomeu was getting at too. Look Mourinho, you tried, failed, in fact gotten beaten at your own game of managing perception a little, so , suck it up and go back to the drawing board – oh forgot he doesn’t really know football so the drawing board isn’t where he tries to win – it’s on the media management and language front, only now he’s trying to play traductor with the truth and everyone is a delusional trance believing the bluster. It’s all getting a little goofy, UEFAcef conspiracies? next it will be black helicopters and double agents. It’s all twisted and the EE seems to lack the capacity to stop what they started, they’re buying their own BS a bit IMO.

    • Yes!

      I’m glad someone was able to catch what I was touching on! Spot on, justlistenin! :mrgreen:

      They can’t stop what they started — UEFA has now opened an investigation and EE are forced to present a case against Barca. Before, they wanted people to buy into propaganda and make people doubt us. Now they have to prove what they are spewing. The best thing they can be right now is indignant and, as you say, buy their own BS.

  25. dennise
    May 13, 2011

    In short – in my opinion UEFA does what it already did previously – drops the case. Because of there is no case.

    …And this blog can turn back to normalcy.

    • ooga aga
      May 13, 2011

      if “normalcy” means no more comments from dennise, i’ll be happy.

      look, just because a person thinks it’s possible (gasp!) that one of our players might have uttered a racist word to an opposing player, doesnt make that person any more or less of a fan. (kxevin has been a fan longer, and done more as a fan to support this club, than dennise and the others jumping on kxevin combined, id bet)

      busquets is a child, kicking a ball, im sure hes capable of lots of things that we wouldnt like…

      he probably didnt say it, ok….(though it sure doesnt look like he said “mucho morro” to me, but like i said, not a lip reader)

      blind faith is a key ingredient of fascism…just saying

      lets wait to see how it pans out…new thread please!

  26. yelèna
    May 13, 2011

    okay, totally off topic, well kinnev. not that i undermine the gravity of the busquets situation, but…

    didn’t we just win la liga?
    we are the champions for 3 consecutive season! aren’t we suppose to be talking about That? we only have one post bout that so far.. aren’t we suppose to be partying now and celebrating? this should be a day of exultation…it’s just that, i kinna feel like the mood is not as jubilant as it should be… im so irritated w/ EE for spoiling the fun! grrrrr…

    • blitzen
      May 13, 2011

      Yes, I hope we get a new thread for when the celebration starts.

      • yelèna
        May 13, 2011

        me too blitzen…i was just watchin some of the initial celebrations and you can see that the team is elated, really crazy happy. that bliss and satisfaction of finally being rewarded after a difficult season.
        and now they’re partying in the streets of catalunya!! wooh, i wish im there! time to partaaaaaaay…

  27. Lev
    May 13, 2011

    quote from dirty tackle (thnx 4 the link, Blitz):

    “All together, no part of Bartomeu’s statements even came close to improving this situation. In fact, they kind of did the opposite. I’d even go so far as to say that instead of speaking, he should have just dropped to the floor and grabbed his face at the start of the interview.”

    this made me laugh 🙂

    I agree that, judging on his latest comments, Bartomeu doesn’t sound to bright.

    Yet…Where are the calls for getting Arbeloa and Marcelo banned for stamping on Villa and Pedro’s legs while our players were on the floor and the ball nowhere near?

    Even if Busquets said what he said, who among here honestly believes being called a monkey is worse than somebody trying to injure you?

    Y’all can call me a monkey / cracker / honkey / ugly-ass white boy anytime you want and I would prefer that over people trying to physically harm me while I am defenselessly laying on the ground.

    I’d rather you “degraded my humanity” (cough, cough) than desintegrated my kneecap.

    Sticks and stones…

    EE disgust me. Marcelo disgusts me. TB disgusts me. Casillas and Xabi Alonso disgust me. Villa Marica disgusts me. Pepe disgusts me. Mou disgust me. Their pathetic smear campaign disgust me. Their fans trying to defend that BS disgust me. Complaining about Busi diving while they are this close from attacking our legs with a meat cleaver disgust me.

    Busi is innocent until proven guilty. Tyson was innocent although proven guilty. OJ was guilty yet proven innocent. Micheal Jackson was a creep, although probably a very sweet creep. Free Mumia.

  28. Bleh! In my sleep muddled brain, I forgot to add points I wanted to make and I could have organized my thoughts a bit better. I should have delved further into the Busi prejudice and the EE propaganda campaign as well.

    What I wanted to add in but forgot:

    Remember when Pep called Mourinho “el puto jefe” of the press room. This is what he means, and the Bartomeu comments are just another example. Since people are so keen to read between the lines — rather than read what is actually being said, think about this for a second. He’s not just talking about Mourinho directly but all things EE.

    EE have been launching a propaganda war against us from Day One. They are doing it now, like they have all season, like they will continue to do in the future. Mourinho is such a media man that people in the media will constantly be falling over themselves and discussing what he has and hasn’t said. They love the controversial characters that have no boundaries. They love to discuss and revel in the conspiracy theories, thinking “oooh, maybe this is what Mourinho means. Look!”

    We can’t win their media war — we can’t compete and we don’t want to. We have given them their personal Champions League trophy.

    What we have done is talk on the pitch and we have our reward — the chance to win the actual Champions.

    EE are the sorest losers I have ever had the misfortune of seeing. They are doing everything they can to belittle our achievements and people are given them an alley.

    Of course they are going to have their hands in all the media sources, and you’re going to hear that kind of stuff against us. PEP SAID THAT. We can’t compete! You want to constantly read between the lines? Read between those lines!

    — It seems that some want Busi to be guilty. Why? Will Busi being a racist make your prejudice against him that much easier? Will Busi being a racist mean he should have never been in the team and that will somehow bring Yaya back? Why in the world would you want a player on your team to be racist? Answer me that.

    • just listenin
      May 13, 2011

      Couldn’t agree more.
      I posted late in yesterday’s thread, that I thought that the prejudice, which is a close cousin , maybe even inbred, mindset to racism, toward Busi (who is still innocent until proven guilty) wasn’t getting enough share of mind in the discussion. Thanks for highlighting this. It’s a great question you pose, and a good call to think about it. I don’t want him to be at all, it would be hugely disappointing.

  29. Josep
    May 13, 2011

    SO GUYS WHO WANTS TO STOP TALKING ABOUT THIS STUFF? OUR TEAM JUST WON THE FREAKING LEAGUE!

    • BarcaGirl_Indo
      May 13, 2011

      I do…

      EE got what they want, they want to destroy our happiness and joy, they want to belittle our achievement, and they succeed…

      so congrats EE, take home your Champions-off-the-pitch trophy, enjoy it!

      now, can we please celebrate the real on-the-pitch trophy?

  30. BarcaGirl_Indo
    May 13, 2011

    a new thread about our celebration, please?
    maybe sharing pics, videos, happiness, talking about parade, etc…

    our team just won La Liga for 3 consecutive years, this blog supposed to be a place to celebrate the title together, with cules around the world…

    isn’t La Liga title worth more than one thread?
    please? 🙂

  31. yelèna
    May 13, 2011

    the parade today can be viewed live in the official site! yay!
    off to the streets of catalunya!

  32. May 13, 2011

    So, here’s my take on what this stuff is doing:

    I think that it’s making us a stronger, more understanding family. If you think about how often blog communities get to have real discussions about anything, I think it’s pretty cool. Usually it’s transfers, or matches, or transfer rumors, or whatever.

    EE’s campaign hasn’t weakened the club or its supporters. Far from it. I think that in uniting to discuss the matter, irrespective of how any of us feels about the matter, we have become stronger. We’re supposed to ask questions, we’re supposed to have the kinds of discussions that we’ve been having, when the situation warrants.

    Did the smear campaign work? No. No way. People who are now calling our club racist, were just calling it something else beFORE the Busquets allegations. They don’t matter. What does matter is how WE come out of it, and how our view of the club comes out of it.

    And I think that’s going to be, and always was, just fine.

    • tutomate
      May 13, 2011

      That is a great way to look at it. I would just like add that the last thing we should do is turn on each other or the club.

      • Xingxian
        May 13, 2011

        That’s the problem though. Is it turning on each other if we suspect others of ‘turning on the club’?

        I don’t think people are indulging in ad hominem attacks because they enjoy being bullies, I think it’s because they feel like they must defend the blaugrana from within.

    • caosanping
      May 13, 2011

      Exactly! Without all those nonsense things from EE, I might have thought the third champions in a row were not that exciting and our guys were just doing a routine job. But now I deeply appreciate what they have done. Looking back into the history, I believe similar things have happened many times, maybe not just from EE but also from our own side. Only time will sweep all the controversies away and only the hard work by players/coaches/club will be remembered forever.

  33. mega_tajh
    May 13, 2011

    Ohh how I would just love to be a fly on the wall when our Barca players get together for dinner. I wonder if they talk about regular stuff like music, children and movies etc..like we do or talk football regularly.

    Also Villa IMO won best dressed last night, I guess he went all out to look good for winning his 1st La Liga title. Sad face for the lonely Afellay and Busi driving in

    • Helge
      May 13, 2011

      Maybe Villa’s looking for a girlfriend, I think he came with a friend or family member…

      Oh, and I think Abidal sometimes looks a bit like Eto’o on the photos 🙂

      • blitzen
        May 13, 2011

        Villa came with his lovely wife Patricia.

      • Barcaleya
        May 13, 2011

        Helge – It might have been Eto’o you’re looking at since he supposedly dropped by to congratulate the team.

    • Barcaleya
      May 13, 2011

      Great post, Kari!!!

      As you know I agree with your thoughts.

      I just have this to say to everyone here – we should all continue supporting our club and being very protective of it and its players especially in the face of dirty propaganda. Once there are facts and judgment to prove otherwise is when we should start criticizing them, as needed, and commensurate only to the transgression involved.

      In the meantime, we only weaken our club and everything it stands for by our lack of faith and by our all-too-human instinct to go with the crowd instead of keeping counsel and standing by something or someone who isn’t popular.

      Likewise, although everyone is entitled to their own dismay and disappointment, and a need to make a point about a very important topic, we should also try to act in a manner such that we don’t judge and crucify someone without proof. I only hope that Busi has a good family and team support system so that he isn’t necessarily demoralized by this current worldview of him. An apology is not even enough to make up for what he must be going through right now.

  34. outerspacedout
    May 13, 2011

    SoccerMom: Not to be a dick, but you specifically said Busi definitely did say so, and did say so calculatedly. In the comment which Kevin blockquoted in his post right after that.

    Now you’re relieved, which means you believe it was morro, it seems. If so how could you undeniably say it was definitely so and so? That was not cool at all. I didnt agree with it then and do not now, being declarative about something inconclusive is always irresponsible. As shown now.

    I don’t mean this as a character attack. I really enjoy your posts and admittedly rare comments. But I still have to call you out on that there. Sorry.

    • Barcaleya
      May 13, 2011

      Agree.

      I was surprised myself at how declarative the statement was about Busi having said “mono, mono.”

      And I’m a big, big fan of SoccerMom myself.

  35. i have just a couple of comments to this amazing article.

    1. i don’t agree Barca were in the right to do nothing about it until UEFA took the reins. there are cules doubting Busi and the club needs to take care of its fans and supporters, socis even, so any sort of comment would’ve been most welcome.

    allowing controversy loom over one of your players is just not the right way to go about it. yes, now that i read this article, speaking about it first could’ve caused people to think ‘aha, something did happen’

    but those would be outsiders, at least that’s what i’d like to think. i’d like to think no Cule would doubt Barca’s moral stance on such things as racism or any other kind of intolerance. a statement from the club would’ve assuaged the doubts of so many cules that maybe want to believe he’s innocent but….

    and responding to the accusation, is exactly what it is, a response. uh oh, we got caught, we have to deny. clearing the air as soon as possible would’ve been the best solution.

    also, from a PR pov, it appears that Barca were gonna sweep this under the rug and all those anti racism campaigns are just words/videos with no meaning.

    no matter what happens now, Busquets’ image will remain stained. not that it was spotless before, but as far as i’m concerned, it was a stain he didn’t need. poor boy.

    2. Did Busi say it? We don’t know, so why are we siding with Marcelo and EE instead of Busi and Barca?

    because in the PC driven world of today, it’s far easier for ANYONE to admit there was racism [and rant about how that player is dead to them] than defend someone in respect to that. just dare say to a madridista that the video is inconclusive, you’re instantly a racism enabler. [true story, sadly]

    people may be Cules, but that doesn’t make them brave nor liable to override the PC brigade regulations. most Cules i know have already condemned him for it and solely awaited for the ban/other punishment.

    and make no mistake, defending a person accused of racism is a true crusade and most people aren’t born with pure justice running in their bloodstream.

    so, for most of ‘us’, it’s more comfortable to distance ourselves from him, even before the hammer struck and just parrot the general opinion.

    as for me, i had my doubts, but the more i saw the video, the more inconclusive it became. to the point of thinking that if one wants to see it, they will [especially that the viewer is told from the get go what they’re supposed to see], and if they don’t, they probably won’t.

    of course, i love that stick figure boy so very much and this might cloud my judgement.

    as for the outcome, i can wholeheartedly say, no matter what, i’m keeping tabs on him, because after all, every family needs a black sheep [ironic much?!] and even the worst of criminals had/has someone that loves them.

    • To answer your response to 2), I forgot to add this in, and I posted it above. Right after that sentence it was supposed to read:

      It seems that some want Busi to be guilty. Why? Will Busi being a racist make your prejudice against him that much easier? Will Busi being a racist mean he should have never been in the team and that will somehow bring Yaya back? Why in the world would you want a player on your team to be racist? Answer me that.
      emember when Pep called Mourinho “el puto jefe” of the press room. This is what he means, and the Bartomeu comments are just another example. Since people are so keen to read between the lines — rather than read what is actually being said, think about this for a second. He’s not just talking about Mourinho directly but all things EE.

      EE have been launching a propaganda war against us from Day One. They are doing it now, like they have all season, like they will continue to do in the future. Mourinho is such a media man that people in the media will constantly be falling over themselves and discussing what he has and hasn’t said. They love the controversial characters that have no boundaries. They love to discuss and revel in the conspiracy theories, thinking “oooh, maybe this is what Mourinho means. Look!”

      We can’t win their media war — we can’t compete and we don’t want to. We have given them their personal Champions League trophy.

      What we have done is talk on the pitch and we have our reward — the chance to win the actual Champions.

      EE are the sorest losers I have ever had the misfortune of seeing. They are doing everything they can to belittle our achievements and people are given them an alley.

      Of course they are going to have their hands in all the media sources, and you’re going to hear that kind of stuff against us. PEP SAID THAT. We can’t compete! You want to constantly read between the lines? Read between those lines!

      –I’m debating whether I should add this in or not. Or if it’s too late.. In the end, I’ll add it in.

      • probably late now, but maybe you should add that, as well.

        however, since it’s uncontested that they have a way with words and with manipulating the media, maybe we [as in the club, not the average joe cule] should be more careful. this media campaign was masterfully ran by EE, they said nothing, allowing farca and the fans to boil over. and then they launched their complains. now saying they didn’t start it too [very kindergarten-like behaviour]

        and it’s hurting us. for once, this is really hurting Barca as a club.

  36. Barcaleya
    May 13, 2011

    I for one supports the Club in NOT coming out with a statement regarding the Busi affair without a proper allegation/accusation. As I’ve said before – this could lead to an absurd scenario where all sorts of videos/photos/ would be cropping up and the Club needs to respond to everything to satisfy its detractors and its fickle fans.

    If you have to doubt your own club through innuendos from all sorts of inconclusive videos and pictures that come out – then you only deserve the misery that you go through.

    There will always be controversies hounding one player or another. The sad thing about this is it became larger than it should mainly through the fans’ own fault. For outright condemning Busi without proof.

    Look – Pep does not respond to each and every single thing Mourinho moans about. But when he did, he made it matter. And his discernment in when to address anything made his statements more weighty. Now everyone dismisses Mou’s whining as mere whines. But they listen when Pep speaks.

    In the same manner – you don’t respond to each and every single stupid thing out there. Like the video. Which could simply be interpreted in so many ways. There are ways by which the Club can address this issue positively and not defensively by relating it to the Busi case.

    But people will always look at something and see what they want to see in it. (More so because Busi has not established himself as one with moral fibre. Thus, the perfect victim for this sort of thing.) There was such a loud outcry from the video because people wanted to prove that there is racism out there. And what better way to support this than Busi and the video. As if we didn’t know this already. As if we are all not in united condemnation of racism. But there could have been so many clearer instances to prove it. Not through this vague and ambiguous video.

    I hope we get a favorable decision in this matter. But in any case, what resulted once what Busi supposedly said was revealed? It made all the detractors appear stupid because they now watch the video and true enough – they could see that it could look like he’s saying mucho morro! More importantly, it showed who the fans were with faith and those who didn’t. Or at least, those who refrained from judgment without convincing proof and those who were so driven to find support for a cause even in the face of such inconclusive evidence and even if it meant tarnishing forever the reputation of one person.

  37. caosanping
    May 13, 2011

    http://www.marca.com/2011/05/13/futbol/equipos/real_madrid/1305310611.html

    It seems now RM is trying to wash their hands in this whole muddy thing. They say they didn’t start this whole thing. They say it’s because Barca’s players’ acting triggered Mou’s comments post match. Come on! Mou attacked Barca, UEFA and even UNICEF and suggested a conspiracy plot favoring Barca. How come is this related to Barca players’ acting? They also stated it’s because Barca sued their coach so they tried to defend themselves by suing Barca’s players. What a logic! Anyway, I feel I can’t understand EE’s people’s logic anymore. I give up.

    • caosanping
      May 13, 2011

      The best thing is to keep silent and wait for the verdict. Now I do agree with you we shouldn’t have appealed to UEFA about Mou because anyway he would be (has been) punished by UEFA. Now they are using this as an excuse and blaming us for starting everything. I guess they do feel the pressure and fingerpointing in their own country about this mess. So they are trying to act as the innocent one. Funny.

    • caosanping
      May 13, 2011

      Just go and watch the celebration in Camp Nou now. Players are in the tunnel and ready for the big greetings from 90,000+ fans!

  38. Moose
    May 13, 2011

    This whole thing is a farce. Now Madrid are denying making any allegations of racism.

    We predicted it. They did it. We (some of us anyway) still fell for it.

    They insinuated using their tabloid media. Got all the bloggers and tweeters in a tizzy. Then bam, they pulled the rug.

    If they seriously thought Busquets racially abused one of their players do you think they wouldn’t lodge a formal complaint?

    You guys were so good at judging guilt based on Guardiola’s comments or the club’s lack of response. What does this statement by Madrid say? Busquets is INNOCENT. This was all a bullsh*t dialogue started to distract and destabilize. And the worst part is that it worked.

    • May 13, 2011

      No. Technically, what the statement says is that they submitted the video as evidence of Busquets diving, and UEFA decided on its own to look seriously at the racism allegations.

      The rest is your interpretation.

      • Moose
        May 13, 2011

        Yep it was my interpretation.

        Just like it was Sid Lowe’s interpretation that Guardiola’s press conference ‘appears to confirm’ (haha) that Busquets did call Marcelo a monkey. Or your interpretation that the club not issuing an official response to this nonsense was all but a direct admission of tolerating racism at the club.

        • May 13, 2011

          Not sure how many more times I can say it:

          Read the post. Even better, read the post then paste the relevant portions where I say that not issuing an official response is all but a direct admission of tolerating racism at the club.

          Not sure if you’re trolling for responses, or what, but I’m done with this. The words are there in black and white. If you want to interpret them in a way that suits your needs, perhaps a different space would be more to your liking. Here, we debate words in their prima facie state, rather than how we’d like them to be as suits our needs.

          I’m sure there are plenty of other Barca sites that aren’t as vexing for you.

          • Moose
            May 14, 2011

            Oh come on, don’t back down now. You’re right, your words are there in black and white.

            “But silence from FC Barcelona, a sporting and humanitarian entity on the world stage, speaks volumes.”

            What volumes does it speak? What are you implying? If my interpretation is off, please enlighten me.

            “It speaks with a sadness-inducing eloquence that, for this cule and soci, is heartbreaking. ”

            Heartbreaking? Really? You wrote a piece that was swerved from your own personal experiences with racism to what you felt was the club’s obligation to respond which ultimately led to your dissatisfaction and Heartbreaking Sadness at the lack of a response. What could you possibly be saying? My reading comprehension is obviously not up to snuff here.

            “That club can’t be in any way, shape or form tolerant of racism, right?”

            That’s your question right? The response from the club answers that question for you right? What does a lack of response say to you then? And why does a lack of response break your heart as a soci and speak volumes about the club’s intent?

            I didn’t quote you line by line because I thought you would have the balls to stick to what you were trying to say. I didn’t think I needed to insult your intelligence and condescend to you that way by cornering you into what you were trying to say. But hey, if you feel the need to use a latin expression or two to condescend to me, that’s your prerogative.

            You wrote something initially I thought was self-serving and totally bullsh*t. I disagreed and called you out on it. That was my position. It’s awfully easy of you to backtrack and re-interpret your own post to suit your present stance and then dismiss me as the one misinterpreting you.

  39. culegirl3
    May 13, 2011

    I didn’t want to comment on the other post about anything having to do with EE because we are in a celebratory mood but this whole EE denying they complained is a slap in a face to say the least. I’m not sure whether to be pissed or have expected it…but one thing is for sure..KARMA will get Madrid and good for what they have created. Screw being reserved and being humble, the club needs to call them out publicly.
    I for one feel extremely stupid for even paying attention to this ridiculous affair and ashamed of myself for being gullible. I’ve learned my lesson.

    Al carajo con los de madrid que no mas saben crear polémica. Enjoy your crushed cup jerks, our boys won’t be thinking of you when, God willing, they’re caressing their La Liga and Champions League trophies.

  40. Nav
    May 13, 2011

    Lev, I don’t want to detract from the celebrations in the other thread so I’ll pot this here:

    ‘Sticks and stones…

    EE disgust me. Marcelo disgusts me. TB disgusts me. Casillas and Xabi Alonso disgust me. Villa Marica disgusts me. Pepe disgusts me. Mou disgust me. Their pathetic smear campaign disgust me. Their fans trying to defend that BS disgust me. Complaining about Busi diving while they are this close from attacking our legs with a meat cleaver disgust me.’

    Completely agree mate. That whole institution and everything it stands for right now disgusts me.

  41. jordi™
    May 13, 2011

    So let me get this right, they just put the video on their site to show him diving, and didn’t accuse him of racism themselves? I suppose the subtitle was coincidental and it really isn’t their fault if UEFA were nudged in that direction having seen it.A fairy also ferried the video to Nyon , not them :roll:

  42. kmlewis1980
    May 13, 2011

    Completely late on this, but this post perfectly sums up all of my feelings on this whole matter. I’m glad someone else came up with all the words I’ve been struggling to find to explain my feelings.

  43. thanks…you just said in a very long post what was basically my point before. cheers..

  44. Barcathegreatestever
    May 16, 2011

    When Busi is cleared of all charges and Marcello proves to be a culprit in this matter by facilitating Mourinhos smear campaign maybe the mob here will take the noose off of his neck. When that happens I’m sure I will see the deeply personal and heartfelt reflections of those that so easily condemned him.

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