Argentina vs Brazil Preview/Game Post

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Does this have anything to do with Barcelona? Besides Messi and Alves possibly being on the pitch at the same time? NO.

Are international breaks boring unless you also happen to be a rabid American college football fan and the season starts today although you still feel emptiness inside due to not watching Barca for a weekend (that’s me by the way)? Yes.

As such, we decided that maybe an Argentina-Brazil preview/game post would be in order if only to help us past the time with no Barca on TV. So, here you go.

As South Africa 2010 gets closer and closer, the blood soaked grinder that is CONMEBOL gauntlet, hands down the toughest group in the world, finds Argentina in real danger of not qualifying. Here’s the table right now.

  1. Brazil: 27 pts
  2. Chile: 26 pt
  3. Paraguay: 24 pts
  4. Argentina: 22 pts
  5. Ecuador: 20 pts
  6. Uruguay: 18 pts
  7. Colombia: 17 pts
  8. Venezuela: 17 pts
  9. Bolivia: 12 pts
  10. Peru: 7 pts

If that’s not a tough group then I don’t know what is. The first four qualify for the WC automatically while the fifth place team plays the fourth place team from CONCACAF in a playoff for the right to go to South Africa. Looking at this table you can see why Argentina is genuinely nervous about qualifying. They cannot afford to drop points right now. Especially considering that next week they have to fly out to face a very dangerous Paraguay team at their place.

However, what makes this interesting is the rivalry between the two nations. Sure, Mexico vs. the US has increased since the 90’s but this one has been going on for much longer. It has evolved in cycles. Argentina had the upper hand from 1986 (the year of the Diego) all the way to 1993 in terms of titles. However, it is interesting to note that during this time the Maradona teams only beat Brazil once in six games. Nonetheless it was to eliminate them in the ¼ finals of the 1990 WC. Making it one of the sweetest victory in Argentina’s history and one of the bitterest for Brazil. Here’s the Brazil broadcast’s version of the 1-0 goal resulting from Maradona’s pass that won it for the Argy’s.

After that, since 1994 it has pretty much been all Brazil, winning two World Cups and making the final of the third as well as beating Argentina in two Copa America finals and a Confederations Cup final. Argentina hasn’t beat Brazil since 2005 when this happened:

Damn. I miss Crespo. Now, let’s look at the two teams:

Brazil
• WC Quals Record: 7 wins, 6 draws, and 1 loss.

• Goal Difference: +19 (26 for-6 against)

• Squad:

Goalkeepers: Julio Cesar (Inter Milan), Victor (Gremio)
Defenders: Andre Santos (Fenerbahce), Daniel Alves (Barcelona), Maicon (Inter Milan), Filipe (Deportivo La Coruna), Lucio (Inter Milan), Luisao (Benfica), Miranda (Sao Paulo), Juan (AS Roma)
Midfielders: Elano (Galatasaray), Felipe Melo (Juventus), Gilberto Silva (Panathinaikos), Sandro (Internacional), Ramires (Benfica), Julio Baptista (AS Roma), Kaka (Real Madrid), Lucas (Liverpool)
Forwards: Luis Fabiano (Sevilla), Nilmar (Villarreal), Robinho (Manchester City), Adriano (Flamengo)

My stance on Dunga is well known. I hate his guts. Not just because I am an Argentina fan but because of what he has done to Brazil’s beautiful football. At first glance it appears he’s done a great job. First on the table, a Confed Cup win, and a +19 goal difference? What else do you want? Well, I want beautiful football and so do a lot of Brasileros. The goal difference is deceiving because of the number of draws they’ve had. They’ve had a lot of very close games with a few “goleadas” spread in between. The key is always that they hardly concede. Their draws are usually of the 0-0 or 1-1 variety. Only six goals in 14 games is remarkable.
Dunga has built this team around Kaka. In theory he plays a 4-2-3-1 but in reality its more like a classic Milan style 4-3-2-1. They live off the counterattack and are their deadliest in space. Kaka and Robinho are two of the deadliest players in the world when given room to run in the open field. They feature three workhorses in the midfield: Gilberto Silva, Ramires, and Melo. Silva is a pure D-Mid while Melo and Ramires are tall, strong, and fast box to box midfielders. Their job is to break up play and give the ball to Kaka. Since they have three withdrawn central midfielders they count a lot on their fullbacks to spread the field. Maicon and Andre Santos/Dani Alves are the preferred starters. They are very prone to bomb forward and sometimes leave space open on the wings. In the “hole” we have Kaka cutting in from left to right and Robinho from right to left while Luis Fabiano plays the 9. Everything goes through Kaka so expect Mascherano to get at least one yellow card and kick him often. Also, Brazil is exceptional at set pieces with so many big tall physical players; not to mention so many good free kick takers (it is Brazil after all).

The key for them is to score first because once they do, they can stay back and play their counterattacking game. If Argentina scores first then we might actually see an interesting game. Consider them prohibitive favorites though.

Argentina

• WC Quals Record: 6 wins, 4 draw, and 4 losses.

• Goal Difference: +4 (19 for-15 against)

• Squad:

Goalkeepers: Juan Pablo Carrizo (Zaragoza), Mariano Andujar (Catania), Sergio Romero (AZ Alkmaar)
Defenders: Javier Zanetti (Inter Milan), Nicolas Pareja (Espanyol), Fabricio Coloccini (Newcastle), Gabriel Heinze (Marseille), Sebastian Dominguez, Emiliano Papa, Nicolas Otamendi (all Velez Sarsfield), Rolando Schiavi (Newell’s Old Boys);
Midfielders: Fernando Gago (Real Madrid), Javier Mascherano (Liverpool), Maxi Rodriguez (Atletico Madrid), Jesus Datolo (Napoli), Juan Sebastian Veron and Rodrigo Brana (Estudiantes), Mario Bolatti (Huracan), Sebastian Battaglia (Boca Juniors)
Forwards: Carlos Tevez (Manchester City), Lionel Messi (Barcelona), Sergio Aguero (Atletico Madrid), Lisandro Lopez (Lyon), Ezequiel Lavezzi (Napoli), Eduardo Salvio (Lanus), Martin Palermo (Boca Juniors).

Argentina has not had a good qualifying campaign at all. They are no longer this team:

Ex coach Afilo Basile was fired halfway through and surprisingly replaced by Diego Maradona. It is pretty much a consensus that el Diego is over his head. A great motivator (if you are Argentinean and GOD tells you to do something then you will give your life to do it) but a shitty tactician, his choice also resulted in the team’s center of attention, Juan Roman Riquelme resigning from la Seleccion. The team is now built around our very own Leo Messi but they still have not found the way to optimize his presence. Two friendly wins against France and Scotland and a rout against Venezuela gave way to a nightmare run of results. A massacre in Bolivia, a 1-0 win against Colombia, and a 2-0 loss against Ecuador has put Argentina between a rock and a hard place.

The team is not as good as some people make it seem in terms of talent. Part of it is Maradona’s fault. When you call up the likes of Gabriel Heinze and Newcastle’s own Jonas Gutierrez instead of Lazio’s Zarate or Real Madrid’s Higuain then you know something is woefully wrong. The other part is that a significant part of a generation that should right now be in its prime is missing for various reasons ranging from injury (Aimar) to flopping (Saviola and D’Alessandro) or resigning (Riquelme). Instead, Argentina has a lot of young talents with a bunch of old guys interspersed with a few players in their primes. How they play depends on the mad whims of el Diego. They’ve done everything from a 4-4-2 to a mad 3-4-3 to a 4-3-3. None of them have been particularly effective.

For the purposes of this game it looks like a 4-4-2 with a backline of Otamendi (good talent) and Dominguez (the pride of Velez-Sarsfield) at CB; with Zanetti and Heinze (WTF!?!?) at FB, Mascherano and Veron at center midfield, Maxi Rodriguez and Jesus Datolo as wingers, and Messi and Tevez up front. I honestly have no idea what they will do. Diego is so bat shit crazy that I just don’t know. Datolo is a real winger and a very underrated player IMO (certainly better than Gutierrez). Maxi is not a real winger and more of a volante or flank midfielder. Look for Maicon and Robinho to have a party against him and Heinze on the left. I like Veron next to Mascherano. That’s a good balance. What I don’t like is Tevez and Messi. The latter needs a real #9 to play off of and that’s Milito but apparently he is on Diego’s bad side.

Argentina claims they want to be offensive and attack but I think that’s also exactly what Brazil wants. They are underdogs in my opinion. That said, Argentina has a hell of a tough crowd. They have NEVER lost a home game for world cup qualifiers. Messi has a world of pressure on him but I think he can thrive off of it. He’s 22 years old and the hopes and dreams of his nation are on his shoulders. No pressure, right? A few days ago, Argentina played a third division side in a practice match… Messi scored 5 goals. He really wants this game. It won’t surprise me to see him man marked. Dunga has done it before using Anderson (Olympics) and Melo (WC quals). They will also kick him every chance they get. Say a prayer for our Argy Bargy because Brazil always plays him tough. The last game they played (a 0-0 draw) went like this for Messi:

If Argentina scores first then they have a chance. As far as I’m concerned they are the soccer national team version of the Cleveland Cavaliers offense (NBA reference). Its “give the ball to Messi and get out of the way ”. I’m not sure that’s enough to win against a pragmatic and effective Brazil side. We’ll see.

Prediction: Brazil 2 Argentina 2

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Written by:

A diehard culé since the Rivaldo/Figo Judas days, I am also a rabid Argentina and Boca Juniors fan despite definitely not being Argentine. Read more articles by me by clicking on the name-link.

246 Comments

  1. OhYes
    September 5, 2009

    Lol Nice free kick Alves..oh wait that was Veron haha

  2. jordi
    September 5, 2009

    The thing is the ref isnt even calling most of the fouls

  3. September 5, 2009

    Wow. Cesar.

  4. BA
    September 5, 2009

    if Argentina lose by this scoreline, what are the odds of Diego getting sacked?

  5. txikidracula
    September 5, 2009

    he should have been sacked after the 6-0 @ bolivia. this should be the golden age of argentina.

  6. OhYes
    September 5, 2009

    BA: Probably about 1,000:1

    Sad thing is a player will most likely get blamed for it..

  7. jnelson
    September 5, 2009

    After this game, I hate Dunga’s Brazil, I hate Maradonna, and I hate Tevez. But i still HATE the BCS more than anything.

  8. September 5, 2009

    So left are Peru, Paraguay and Uruguay. Two of those are at altitude, right?

  9. txikidracula
    September 5, 2009

    peru for sure.

  10. BA
    September 5, 2009

    Veron’s free kick can’t make it past the 1-man wall. he’s been horribly inadequate in that position.

  11. BA
    September 5, 2009

    and the game against Peru is at home.

  12. September 5, 2009

    Better than Dumbenech, but not enough to get him axed for sure.

  13. September 5, 2009

    Aguero? Really?

  14. jnelson
    September 5, 2009

    Yes, Dumbenech is truly idiotic. I think a battle of the mindless between he and Diego would be entertaining. I think Maradonna should resign, start working out and training, then suit up for the team. If Adriano can be recalled, (and possibly Ronaldo?? HUH?) then its possible. They’d be better off with him playing than coaching.

  15. txikidracula
    September 5, 2009

    oh…scratch peru then. altitude shmaltitude. maradonna sucks. he can’t even mimic barca’s play. he has the personnel.

  16. September 5, 2009

    I hate Dunga AND Maradona.

    The only way for Argentina to take ANYTHING positive out of this is if Maradona is fired.

    BTW The newspapers tomorrow will talk about how Messi failed to lead the team to glory.

    On the bright side, my college football team won convincingly today.

  17. September 5, 2009

    I got it! Maradona looks like Robert Downey, Jr. as the old Charlie Chaplin.

  18. txikidracula
    September 5, 2009

    peru home. uruguay away.

  19. belch
    September 5, 2009

    masch << yaya

  20. Luna
    September 5, 2009

    Maradona…out!

    Whose your college football team Hector? I’m a big 12 person…My boy Sam Bradford, hurt shoulder, Oklahoma just lost 🙁

  21. jordi
    September 5, 2009

    Thanks for ruining my weekend Diego ! Next saturday cant come sooner.

  22. September 5, 2009

    Argentina just doesn’t look a team to me. They look a collection of talented individuals. And that isn’t a club that can win. Not long-term. You can beat minnows like that, but not bigger fish.

  23. September 5, 2009

    So that magad tv link was Al Jazeera feed, with English commentary.

  24. Jose
    September 5, 2009

    Argentina wholly deserved to lose like that…

  25. jordi
    September 5, 2009

    lol they will call leo soft wont they

  26. September 5, 2009

    25 goals in 33 matches for Fabiano? All that, and I still hate him.

  27. September 5, 2009

    As I said earlier, this is a blessing in disguise for Arg if they fire Maradona. If not…well, it’ll be a shame for a truly transcendetal player (Messi) to not be on the world’s biggest stage next year.

    Also, can I get some props for the 3-1 prediction at halftime?

  28. OhYes
    September 5, 2009

    Yes Messi will get blamed for this..and yet he was the only person with an Arg jersey worthy of being called a football player. Ah well

  29. jnelson
    September 5, 2009

    PROPS! @ Ahsan.

    how STUPID. did maradonna really think he could win without playing a striker?!

  30. txikidracula
    September 5, 2009

    yeah that maged stream was a great save. one of scottland’s ex coach’s doing the pregame & halftime commentary.

  31. Colin
    September 5, 2009

    Good call Kevin. Argentina were no where near fluid enough to overcome Brazil’s negative play. They need someone to distribute through the midfield. Masch can slow those counters but the other midfielders didn’t look like they had clear roles.

  32. September 5, 2009

    No Higuain, no Riquelme, 3 midgets (Leo, Aguero, Tevez) running around like rabbits when you only need 1.

    FIRE HIM!

  33. Jose
    September 5, 2009

    jnelson, obviously you don’t understand Maradona’s tactics:

    1) Give the ball to Messi.
    2) ???
    3) Goal!

  34. September 5, 2009

    Props @Ahsan.

    Maradona and Dumbenech, both playing w/o strikers today. What do both coaches have in common? Hmmm….

  35. September 5, 2009

    If you’re playing like Argentina, midfield control is crucial. They’re only playing when they get the ball. Did any of their attackers ever track back?

    Argentina had control of the ball in the attacking end, but once they lost it, Brazil were off to the races.

  36. Colin
    September 5, 2009

    More bad news for Argentina: Venezuela go up on chile out of nowhere on two horrible back passes. Argentina could end the day with four teams breathing down their neck for that fourth (and fifth…) spot.

  37. September 5, 2009

    So top 5 go through, and sixth plays CONCACAF in a playoff, correct?

  38. Helge
    September 5, 2009

    🙁
    Desastrous performance from Argentina, where is the defence, where is the offensive, creative midfield?

    Messi cannot carry the whole nation. Where is Lucho Gonzales, Juan Roman Riquelme, Lisandro Lopez, Gonzalo Higuain? And I doubt that there is not a single Argentinian defender who is better than the ones who played today (except of Zanetti, he’s actually good but not so today). I am still shocked and I already feel sorry for all the blaming on Messi that will possibly come up in the Argentinean press. And I’m looking forward to the day of Maradonna’s retirement.

    Nevertheless, I’m also kind a relieved that no Barca player got injured and everyone (except of Messi) had a great match. Messi will strike back, possibly not on Wednesday, because Argentina is no team at all, but he will do it for us against Inter and in La Liga.

    Visca el Barca!

  39. Helge
    September 5, 2009

    PS: I’m also looking forward to some nation kicking Brazil’s ass in the World Cup, they have become the Italy of South America, or even worse, the Chelsea of the national teams.

    Good night!

  40. Boat Forever
    September 5, 2009

    Top 4 go through and the fifth plays CONCACEF in a play off

  41. Jose
    September 5, 2009

    Apparently, of all the players in the field only Zanetti and Veron were alive the last time Argentina lost to Brazil at home in a competitive match.

  42. September 5, 2009

    I could list over 20 things that Argentina did wrong, I shit you not. But why? With Maradona there, they are not going to get any better. They have 3 games to get better. They truly could be out.

    Luna- Michigan. Seriously, thank God for Barca because the last years have been horrible on that end of the spectrum. It felt good to win convincingly after what seems like decades. Sorry about Bradford. I like that dude.

  43. Luna
    September 5, 2009

    Mexico gol…Giovanni dos Santos!

  44. jordi
    September 5, 2009

    Yes Helge, exactly like chelsea.Hopefully they meet spain in the world cup and iniesta can exact justice for football again.

  45. Luna
    September 5, 2009

    Wow Hector, Michigan, glad you won, with the drama surrounding Rich Rodriguez. I like Michigan, glad you won!

  46. drew
    September 5, 2009

    golazo from the older dos santos!

  47. txikidracula
    September 5, 2009

    ex barca gio dos santos scores for mexico just before half time. really nice shot. and it wasn’t on a crappy feed! streaming matches licks ass. never again.

  48. Luna
    September 5, 2009

    jealous txiki, jealous

  49. Boat Forever
    September 5, 2009

    Any buy-back clause included in his transfer? Been excellent lately

  50. txikidracula
    September 5, 2009

    ha! just wanted to rub it in a little more in case you forgot :^p

    how do you not get telemundo? i even got that channel when i was living in boston for a while. where do you live mars?

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